NASA Sending Five Payloads to Moon on Astrobotic’s Peregrine Lander

NASA will kick off 2024 by sending five payloads to the Moon aboard Astrobotic’s Peregrine lander, Astrobotic Peregrine Mission One. The inaugural launch under the agency’s CLPS (Commercial Lunar Payload Services) initiative will blast off Monday, Jan. 8, from Cape Canaveral, Florida, on a United Launch Alliance Vulcan rocket.

The suite of NASA payloads aboard Peregrine One will aim to locate water molecules on the Moon, measure radiation and gases around the lander, and evaluate the lunar exosphere (the thin layer of gases on the Moon’s surface). These measurements will improve our understanding of how solar radiation interacts with the lunar surface. The payloads will also provide data to NASA’s Lunar-VISE (Lunar Vulkan Imaging and Spectroscopy Explorer) instrument suite, slated to land on the Gruithuisen Domes in 2026.

“We are so excited to see this vision become a reality. CLPS is an innovative way of leveraging American companies to send important science and technology payloads to the Moon,” said Nicola Fox, associate administrator, Science Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters in Washington. “The Moon is a rich destination for scientific discovery. Studying and sampling the lunar environment will help NASA unravel some of the greatest mysteries of our solar system for the benefit of all.”

The Peregrine lander is targeted to land Feb. 23 at Sinus Viscositatis, a lunar feature outside of the hardened lava Gruithuisen Domes on the near side of the Moon. Similar natural structures on Earth require large volumes of water to form, leading scientists to believe that this landing site may contain evidence of water on the Moon.

The five NASA payloads aboard Astrobotic’s Peregrine One lander include the following:

• The LETS (Linear Energy Transfer Spectrometer) payload is a radiation monitor derived from heritage hardware flown on Orion Exploration Flight Test-1 in 2014. LETS will collect data on the lunar radiation environment and demonstrate the capabilities of the radiation monitors themselves on the lunar surface. LETS units also were flown as BioSentinel payloads aboard Artemis I and aboard the International Space Station. LETS uses the same core technology as the Hybrid Electronic Radiation Assessor system, the primary radiation monitor on Artemis missions. Payload principal investigator: Dr. Edward Semones, NASA’s Johnson Space Center.

• NIRVSS (Near-Infrared Volatile Spectrometer System) will reveal the composition and surface temperature and fine-scale structure of the lunar soil at the landing site. NIRVSS features an imager, spectrometer, and thermal sensor to study the lunar soil and detect which types of minerals and volatiles are present. Payload principal investigator: Dr. Anthony Colaprete, NASA’s Ames Research Center

• The NSS (Neutron Spectrometer System) is an instrument capable of indirectly detecting potential water present in the lunar soil at the landing site, as a result of the water in the exhaust deposited by the lander’s engines. After landing, the system will measure any changes in the characteristics of the lunar soil over the course of a lunar day. Payload principal investigator: Dr. Richard Elphic, NASA Ames

• PITMS (Peregrine Ion-Trap Mass Spectrometer) will investigate the makeup of compounds in the thin lunar atmosphere after descent and landing, and throughout the lunar day, to understand the release and movement of volatiles such as water, gases, and other chemical compounds. PITMS is a partnership between NASA, The Open University in Milton Keynes, England, and ESA (European Space Agency). Payload principal investigator: Dr. Barbara Cohen, NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center

• LRA (Laser Retroreflector Array) is a collection of eight retroreflectors that enable precise measurements of the distance between the orbiting or landing spacecraft and the lander. LRA is a passive optical instrument and will function as a permanent location marker on the Moon for decades to come. Payload principal investigator: Dr. Xiaoli Sun, NASA Goddard

Astrobotic is one of 14 vendors eligible to carry NASA payloads to the Moon through the CLPS initiative, which began in 2018 and is designed to establish a commercial marketplace for science, exploration, and technology development investigations on the Moon’s surface and in lunar orbit. Through CLPS, NASA aims to gain new insights into the lunar environment and expand the lunar economy to support future crewed missions under the Artemis program.

Learn more about NASA’s CLPS initiative at:

https://www.nasa.gov/commercial-lunar-payload-services/

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Jeffery Rubio

Experience the Launch of NASA’s SpaceX Crew-8 Mission  

Digital content creators are invited to register to attend the launch of the eighth SpaceX Dragon spacecraft and Falcon 9 rocket that will carry crew to the International Space Station for a science expedition mission. This mission is part of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program.

The targeted launch date for the agency’s SpaceX Crew-8 mission is no earlier than mid-February from Launch Complex 39A at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The launch will carry NASA astronauts Matthew Dominick, commander; Michael Barratt, pilot; and mission specialist Jeanette Epps, as well as Roscosmos cosmonaut mission specialist Alexander Grebenkin, to the International Space Station to conduct a wide range of operational and research activities.

If your passion is to communicate and engage the world online, then this is the event for you! Seize the opportunity to see and share the #Crew8 mission launch.

A maximum of 50 social media users will be selected to attend this three-day event and will be given access similar to news media.

NASA Social participants will have the opportunity to:

• View a crewed launch of the SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket and Dragon spacecraft.
• Tour NASA facilities at Kennedy Space Center.
• Meet and interact with Crew-8 subject matter experts.
• Meet fellow space enthusiasts who are active on social media.

NASA Social registration for the Crew-8 launch opens on Friday, Jan. 5, and the deadline to apply is at 3 p.m. EST Tuesday, Jan. 9. All social applications will be considered on a case-by-case basis.

APPLY NOW

Do I need to have a social media account to register?

Yes. This event is designed for people who:

• Actively use multiple social networking platforms and tools to disseminate information to a unique audience.
• Regularly produce new content that features multimedia elements.
• Have the potential to reach a large number of people using digital platforms, or reach a unique audience, separate and distinctive from traditional news media and/or NASA audiences.
• Must have an established history of posting content on social media platforms.
• Have previous postings that are highly visible, respected, and widely recognized.

Users on all social networks are encouraged to use the hashtag #NASASocial and #Crew8. Updates and information about the event will be shared on X via @NASASocial and @NASAKennedy, and via posts to Facebook and Instagram.

How do I register?

Registration for this event opens Friday, Jan. 5, and closes at 3 p.m. EST on Tuesday, Jan. 9. Registration is for one person only (you) and is non-transferable. Each individual wishing to attend must register separately. Each application will be considered on a case-by-case basis.

Can I register if I am not a U.S. citizen?

Because of the security deadlines, registration is limited to U.S. citizens. If you have a valid permanent resident card, you will be processed as a U.S. citizen.

When will I know if I am selected?

After registrations have been received and processed, an email with confirmation information and additional instructions will be sent to those selected. We expect to send the acceptance notifications on Jan. 17.

What are NASA Social credentials?

All social applications will be considered on a case-by-case basis. Those chosen must prove through the registration process they meet specific engagement criteria.

If you do not make the registration list for this NASA Social, you still can attend the launch offsite and participate in the conversation online. Find out about ways to experience a launch here.

What are the registration requirements?

Registration indicates your intent to travel to NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida and attend the three-day event in person. You are responsible for your own expenses for travel, accommodations, food, and other amenities.

Some events and participants scheduled to appear at the event are subject to change without notice. NASA is not responsible for loss or damage incurred as a result of attending. NASA, moreover, is not responsible for loss or damage incurred if the event is cancelled with limited or no notice. Please plan accordingly.

Kennedy is a government facility. Those who are selected will need to complete an additional registration step to receive clearance to enter the secure areas.

IMPORTANT: To be admitted, you will need to provide two forms of unexpired government-issued identification; one must be a photo ID and match the name provided on the registration. Those without proper identification cannot be admitted.

For a complete list of acceptable forms of ID, please visit: NASA Credentialing Identification Requirements.

All registrants must be at least 18 years old.

What if the launch date changes?

Many different factors can cause a scheduled launch date to change multiple times. If the launch date changes, NASA may adjust the date of the NASA Social accordingly to coincide with the new target launch date. NASA will notify registrants of any changes by email.

If the launch is postponed, attendees will be invited to attend a later launch date. NASA cannot accommodate attendees for delays beyond 72 hours.

NASA Social attendees are responsible for any additional costs they incur related to any launch delay. We strongly encourage participants to make travel arrangements that are refundable and/or flexible.

What if I cannot come to the Kennedy Space Center?

If you cannot come to the Kennedy Space Center and attend in person, you should not register for the NASA Social. You can follow the conversation online using #NASASocial.

You can watch the launch on NASA Television or www.nasa.gov/live. NASA will provide regular launch and mission updates on @NASA, @NASAKennedy, and @Commercial_Crew.

If you cannot make this NASA Social, don’t worry; NASA is planning many other Socials in the near future at various locations! Check back here for updates.

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Michelle Zajac

NASA’s Artemis I Spacecraft Prepped to Depart to Ohio Facility

From Florida to the Moon and back, NASA’s Orion spacecraft is still making moves. The crew module that flew more than 1.4 million miles during the agency’s historic Artemis I mission is getting ready for its next destination – NASA’s Neil Armstrong Test Facility in Sandusky, Ohio.  

Technicians inside NASA’s Multi-Payload Processing Facility at the agency’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida, use a crane to lift the Artemis I spacecraft – now called an environmental test article – into the crew module transportation fixture in preparation for its departure. Engineers will use it in qualification tests to better understand how Orion would perform in the event of a launch or inflight abort. 

After splashing down in the Pacific Ocean, the Orion spacecraft for the Artemis I mission returned to Kennedy in December 2022. Components scheduled for reuse on Artemis II were removed and the crew module was reconfigured to serve as a test article. With crew module function tests now complete, the test article has been prepared for transport with the installation of the aft, mid bay back shell, and the side hatch in final closure. 

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Elyna N. Niles-Carnes

NASA Adjusts Agreements to Benefit Commercial Station Development

NASA has modified agreements for two funded commercial space station partners that are on track to develop low Earth orbit destinations for NASA and other customers as the International Space Station retires in 2030. The changes add new technical milestones and reallocate existing funding to allow the agency to accelerate efforts as part of NASA’s goal to foster a commercial low Earth orbit economy.

“These new milestones will be of immense value to NASA and the partners, and will help ensure we have a smooth transition from the International Space Station to commercial destinations,” says Phil McAlister, director of commercial space at NASA Headquarters in Washington. “The milestones target key technology and risk reduction areas of our partners’ designs. The milestones also include additional hardware testing which is critically important to any spaceflight development effort. In addition, each new milestone will be an opportunity for NASA to gain further insight into our partners’ progress and technical designs.”

The changes are a result of a previously announced joining of Northrop Grumman and Starlab partners originally working under separate Space Act Agreements. NASA has transferred funding freed up from the withdrawal of Northrop Grumman from its agreement with NASA, as well as other program funding, to add new milestones to the existing agreements with Blue Origin and Starlab.

Blue Origin of Seattle is receiving an additional $42 million for its Orbital Reef station, bringing the total award to $172 million. The new milestones include several additional subsystem design reviews and technology maturation activities. They also include key tests and demonstrations in the environmental control and life support system, such as water filtration and atmospheric monitoring.

Voyager Space’s Exploration Segment, which includes Nanoracks, will receive an additional $57.5 million for its Starlab station, bringing the total award to $217.5 million. The new milestones include the addition of development milestones for the Northrop Grumman Cygnus spacecraft, upgrading from berthing to docking to better serve Starlab and commercial markets. The new milestones also include additional Starlab development milestones focused on operations, assembly, integration, and testing as well as a rendezvous and proximity operations demonstration.

Blue Origin and Voyager Space/Nanoracks have Space Act Agreements with NASA, while NASA’s other funded commercial station partner, Axiom Space, holds a firm-fixed price, contract with the agency. NASA is in the process of negotiating additional content to Axiom Space’s contract. Details are still being finalized and more information will be released by the agency as those negotiations are completed.

“We continue to see an immense amount of dedication from our partners,” said Angela Hart, manager of Commercial Low Earth Orbit Development Program at NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston. “The agency is committed to continuing to work with industry with the goal having one or more stations in orbit to ensure competition, lower costs, and meet the demand of NASA and other customers.”

NASA is supporting the design and development of multiple commercial space stations with the three funded partners listed above, as well as several other partners with unfunded agreements through NASA’s Collaborations for Commercial Space Capabilities-2 project.

The current design and development phase will be followed by the procurement of services from one or more companies, where NASA aims to be one of many customers for low Earth orbit destinations.. The agency recently issued a request for information for industry to provide input on the agency’s requirements for end-to-end low Earth orbit space station services.

NASA’s commercial strategy for low Earth orbit will provide the government with reliable and safe services at a lower cost and enable the agency to focus on Artemis missions to the Moon in preparation for Mars, while also continuing to use low Earth orbit as a training and proving ground for those deep space missions.

For more information about NASA’s commercial low Earth orbit strategy, visit:

https://www.nasa.gov/low-earth-orbit-economy/

– end –

Joshua Finch
Headquarters, Washington
202-358-1100
joshua.a.finch@nasa.gov

Rebecca Turkington
Johnson Space Center, Houston
281-483-5111
rebecca.turkington@nasa.gov

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Andrea Lloyd

Interview with Victoria Hartwick

April 11,2023

You probably know from reading these that we like to start with your early years, where you were born, something about your family, if you have siblings, your parents and what they did, and mixed in with that, how early was it in your life that you developed an interest in what you’ve pursued academically and now in your career?

Let’s see. I was born in Chicago, Illinois, but I grew up in Wisconsin. I left Chicago at, I think, six months old. My parents: my dad is a radiologist and the reason we were in Chicago was for his residency. My mom has a degree in English literature and teaching. I have two siblings, an older sister and a younger brother, so I’m smack in the middle.

And you know, I can’t even remember when I first started getting interested in science, and in particular in astronomy and planetary science. It’s just something I was always really interested in. I have this vague memory of like third grade and having to do a report on a planet and instead of doing just one, I did all of them! (laughs)  So that was probably a hint to my parents, that it was something that captured my imagination. I was just really lucky that I had parents who were excited to encourage me to pursue science and not a more practical career path. They just let me explore all the things I was interested in.

You’re reminding me of one of our earlier interviews, where the young researcher said she was interested in meteorology, especially clouds. She remembers  going on Sunday drives out in the Midwest and she would sit in the car looking up at the clouds and she got very interested in them. And then at some point she realized, oh my goodness, there are clouds on other planets! Isn’t that interesting? So she went down that path and became a scientist, researching planetary atmospheres. It’s interesting what triggers an interest, which is why parents expose children to all kinds of things, music, art, nature, and science. You never know what’s going to click with them.

That is something my dad, with sort of a science mind, still talks to me about, like, “How do you apply radiology imaging to imaging done outside of our planet?” And my mom is very much into the arts. She took me to all the plays and had me play violin and participate in forensics and community theater, all of that. So I had a nice balance of different things.

You did and you’re very fortunate.  As you grew up and got into school, there was a basic curriculum early on, but then there were times when you had to make some choices in terms of majors, courses of study, and so forth. Could you talk a little bit about that?

Sure. I had sort of a winding path, I think, to my major and ultimately to my PhD. I knew I was interested in science, but I didn’t know really where I was interested. So in undergraduate I was deciding between a neuroscience degree or a physics and astronomy degree. I toyed with linguistics because I’ve always loved languages and I thought, hey, that’s the “sciency” side of language. Ultimately, I got my undergraduate degree in astronomy and microbiology. I think I realized that I really was interested in planetary habitability, but I didn’t know what particular side of that, whether I was more interested in the broad, galactic point of view or the really narrow extremophile point of view. So I had these two scales of science that I was looking at. And it really took until grad school to kind of narrow in on what part I was most interested in. But it gave me some cool opportunities in undergrad to do a lot of different research. I was working in a leaf cutter ant lab and also doing extra galactic astronomy research, so I got to toy around a bit and see what was most interesting.

Science is a very broad category and it gives you, especially in space science, lots of options everywhere you go. And then at some point you wound up at the University of Colorado, Boulder, for your PhD?
Yes.

OK. And then you found your way to NASA Ames. Can you tell us how that happened? Was it just the posting of a postdoctoral opportunity or did you have a connection from someone here?

I had a connection. I was lucky enough to participate in some panels as a graduate student, and at conferences I started communicating and talking with Bob Haberle and Melinda Kahre here at Ames. And as I approached the end of my PhD, I started talking to them about opportunities and they pointed me to the NPP program. So I applied to work with Bob Haberle to kind of extend the Mars Climate Modeling Center’s work looking at exoplanets, Mars-like exoplanets.

Sounds like a perfect fit.

Yeah, it’s been fun to take what I learned about Mars, and this is again, kind of an extrapolation from smaller scale. We had really fine, really detailed experiments to look at present day Mars because we knew a lot about it. And I got to kind of broaden it, to say “Well, what if we were in this completely different environment? How can we apply what we learn from what’s happening on Mars today to a different environment, a different solar system, a different planetary type?”

Right. So maybe this is a good time to have you talk a little bit about the work that you do, including why it’s important enough that NASA is willing to ask the American taxpayer to subsidize it. Why would they be willing to support the kind of work that you do?

I think that’s a really good question and it’s something I think about because as an employee of NASA, through the Bay Area Environmental Research program, it’s my obligation as a scientist to contribute to the American people. And I want our research to be valuable to them and have, if not direct applications to their day-to-day life, still something that brings a greater sense of how our universe works and a greater sense of wonder about the world we live in.

I work on both Mars, present day Mars and Paleo Mars, and exoplanets. I think those two have very different applications. When we think about exoplanets, it’s really about learning more about how our universe works and where we fit in to the broader universe. So those fundamental questions: Are we alone? What does it mean to have life develop? What are the fundamental requirements for life to develop? That’s really what I’m looking at with these exoplanets to see what kind of environments might we expect, how do we identify those environments and could they be habitable? For present day Mars, it’s a little bit closer to home in the sense that it’s our next door neighbor, but it also has a little bit more direct application. it’s interesting just to know how a planet works, but also a lot of the work we do with our climate models is to support mission development and mission work. So EDL (Entry, Descent, Landing) can rely on some of our results. I recently did a really fun project looking at the feasibility of wind energy for human missions to Mars to see if that could be something that would aid in energy stability.

I listened to your Abscicon talk about that, and it was fascinating to me. I hadn’t realized that there might be a way to augment energy availability on a planet so that exploration could be better developed and supported, with more opportunities to go to more places. And that’s very interesting because, as we’ve seen the movies, there’s wind on Mars! (laughs)

Exactly. There’s wind, but it’s very easy to dismiss it since the atmosphere is so thin and the winds aren’t that strong. But the technology that we develop on Earth has gotten better and better. There’s opportunity to apply what we’ve learned on Earth to other planets.

So would the general value be considered in support of NASA’s strategic mission for exploration? Or is it more specific than that? Does it tie into the search for life?

Yeah, I think that’s fair to say. I mean, one of the goals of the current administration is to explore the potential for habitability and life and a lot of my exoplanet work fits directly into that goal and helps prioritize future mission development in order to evaluate that potential? But then one of my favorite things about astronomy is still just the sense of wonder you can get from recognizing how much there is in the universe and how different things can be and how almost anything you can think of is out there. In some respects I feel like my research can contribute to that excitement for all ages, especially for kids coming into STEM or interested in it in the future.

Has there been, in your so far relatively short career, some unusual or interesting finding, such as the wind idea, that’s cool? Anything like that that you want to talk about?

Yeah, for sure. There’s been a couple, actually.  My PhD is in atmospheric and oceanic sciences, so I was in a group that was very focused on Earth science and on really small scale evaluations of the Earth’s climate. And one of the most valuable experiences I got out of that was learning how to bridge the gap between Earth science and planetary science and take the things we learn from Earth and think about how they could be applicable to a different planetary environment. And two of my papers are directly related to that. The wind energy came from, the inspiration for that arose from a colleague’s presentation on wind evaluation for earth using a global climate model.  And my paper on cloud formation seeded on micrometeoritic dust was inspired by polar noctilucent clouds on Earth. It’s a type of cloud that we see today in the northern hemisphere summer pole that form on these, just basically on the debris of meteors burning up in the atmosphere. And we thought, “Hey, Mars is going through that same sort of cloud of interplanetary debris, and maybe that could be responsible for some of the clouds that we’ve observed but are really difficult to replicate in models”.

I’d like to ask what a typical day is like for you. We’ve had to qualify that because of the pandemic that’s ongoing but It looks like you’re back in the office now?

Yeah, I’m in the office today.

Have you able to do your work pretty much remotely without much problem? Do you have to be here to work in a lab or something like that.

I’m lucky that as a climate modeler, most of my work is computer work, so I just have to remotely log into the NASA supercomputer and that gives me the opportunity to work pretty easily from most locations. But it has been nice to get back into the office and be able to have conversations with colleagues that really spark inspiration and ideas and excitement.

That’s something that a number of researchers have mentioned that they miss more than anything. There’s a lot of convenience associated with working from home, especially if you have a commute or childcare obligations, something like that.

Yes.

But you do miss the interactions, the collaborations, and the fellowship of your science colleagues. It’s astounding to me that there are some new hires in the last few years who have never been on the Ames campus yet. That’s both amazing and sad.  Moving on, what do you enjoy most and least about your work?

Oh, that’s a hard one. I think what I enjoy most is related to what we were just saying, the sense of excitement and exploration when you’re really brainstorming new ideas with colleagues and seeing what everybody else is doing. I love going to scientific conferences and seeing all of the amazing work that people have been up to and having an opportunity to have these off the cuff conversations about how their work can relate to my work and vice versa. I think as in any job there’s always the mundanity of everyday tasks that can be tiring. As a global climate modeler, I have to deal with debugging code and that can be terrible.

I imagine it can.

Many a month in my graduate studies was spent trying to figure out what the hell was going on in this giant code. You learn a lot. That’s probably a low point, but is followed by the high point when you finally figure it out.

I can certainly relate to that, however you’re one of the few who hasn’t mentioned the bureaucratic paperwork that you have to do all the time and that’s probably. . .

I think I try not to think about it! (laughs).

. . .  probably because it goes without saying. But it’s obvious from your enthusiasm and just your whole demeanor that you’re happy with where you’ve landed, career wise. You’re excited about the things you’re doing and everything. But have you ever thought about, if you weren’t a research scientist for NASA, what your dream job might have been?

I have thought about that actually. I said I had a lot of indecision early in my career about what I wanted to do, I think if I wasn’t in planetary science, I would be in linguistics because I love languages and that’s one of the things I still miss because I would take all the language classes I could. So I always imagined I could have worked as a translator for the UN or something.

That’s interesting, and perhaps comes from your mom’s side of the family.

Yes! And then of course, I have a friend and we always said one day we would open a tea shop in a college town. So we’ll see if that ever comes to pass!  (laughs)

I always thought that foreign languages were intimidating and then I wound up having to learn one and I realized that it’s only a matter of memorization. You just memorize more words for things. You already have huge vocabulary built up over the years from a little child, and if you just learn more words for things, it doesn’t seem as daunting, at least to me.

What I’ve always liked about languages is that they make you think in slightly different ways because of the organization of the grammar and how you communicate. It’s different enough that it changes your perspective and in some sense I think coding is like that. It’s a very logical foreign language.

Yes, coding is analogous to a language. it is a language. How many languages have you picked up over the years?

Well, a couple. I mean, I’m only really good at maybe one or two besides English. I can speak reasonable French, I can get by.  And if I practiced, my Spanish isn’t too bad. I’ve taken courses in Russian and Italian. I took a class in a language called Nahuatl, which is the Aztec language. And I took old English, which was very hard. I think that was the hardest one I’ve done. And I’ve toyed with trying to learn Swedish, that’s sort of on my bucket list of ones to learn.

Have you taken any of the root languages, the fundamental languages like Latin or anything of that type?

You know, I haven’t. The closest was old English. But I haven’t gotten around to Latin.

I took Latin in high school and I’m not sure why, but I’m glad I did because it exemplifies the things you’ve talked about, the value of better understanding your own language.

Yep.

How other languages relate to each other and how words get to mean certain things.

Latin is always very interesting. From that you can see how words come together and the syntactical history of the word, and that’s great. But when I was first learning, I just wanted to talk to people, and there’s not much of an opportunity for that with Latin.

I’m tempted to interject a thought about the biblical story of the Tower of Babel because if there was going to be a way to interrupt what the people were trying to do, it would be hard to beat causing language confusion so they couldn’t understand each other, couldn’t communicate any more. It was a very effective means of disrupting their work.

Yeah.

So you’re on your way. Obviously you’re in the middle of a very successful and productive career. What advice would you give to a young up and coming PhD student, for example, or someone who would like to have a career like you are having now?

One thing is to follow your passions. Find the thing that you’re interested in and, don’t let somebody tell you it’s not practical or that you should be doing something differently. And also, and this is, I think, more important, is allow something to be difficult. Just because something is hard doesn’t mean you can’t do it. I always say I was naturally better at linguistics than astronomy. Physics is hard for me. It took a lot of work for me to really dig into it and understand it. I remember looking at people around me and they just seemed to get it immediately. I thought, maybe I’m not cut out for this field. Maybe I don’t have the innate talent to do it, but I think struggling and really thinking through something, can give you an interesting perspective on it, and a really strong base to build your science on. So the struggle is important and it’s OK.

That’s quite profound, actually. I remember talking with a guidance counselor who had been asked by someone who wanted to pursue a medical degree but was intimidated by the fact that it would take all those extra years, postgraduate years and then an internship,  5 or 6  years before they can actually become a practicing physician. The counselor’s question back to that person was: “Yes, but that time is still going to pass. You’re still going to be somewhere at that point. You’re not sacrificing those years. You’re just choosing your destination”.

Yeah.

And that just told me:  “Don’t look at it as something that takes too long because you’re going to live those years anyway. It’s just a matter of where are you will be at the end of those years.

I like that perspective. I’ll remember that when I’m struggling through the work now! (laughs)

Would you like to share anything about your personal life, your family, kids, pets, trips, hobbies, things you like to do?

I have been married six years now and we have a 1-1/2 year old, which has been new and exciting. He’s a handful and a lot of fun. And we have a great and very energetic Husky mix and she keeps our pet life interesting.

For sure!

Yeah. So that’s our little family.

Talents? Are you musical? What do you like to do?

I’ve played violin for, I don’t want to betray my age, something like 30 years now. (laughs) So that is something I still enjoy. And as a family, we like going hiking.

I like that, too.

Back in 2020 I took up ice skating because you know, why not? I always wanted to learn how to figure skate, so my husband got me lessons for Christmas and when I have free time, I try to do that still.

That’s wonderful. Our daughter was interested in ice skating for a while, and that was back when there were ice skating rinks in the area. There was one in Sunnyvale and one in Palo Alto, I think it was called Winter Lodge, and it is still there on Middlefield Road.

There’s one still down in San Jose, so I try to go to that one. It’s like the Sharks training facility, I think.

There used to be one in the bottom level of Vallco shopping center in Cupertino,  but it went away. The whole shopping center went away!

I’m not very good at all, but it’s amazing the joy you get out of something like figuring out how to skate backwards. (laughs)

Well, the one thing it’ll make you do is appreciate when you watch Olympic level figure skaters and the things that they do on the ice. When I go around my ankles are tilted inward. I can’t even stand up straight on them! (laughs)

Exactly!

So any other sports that you might have done along the way or were interested in?

Yeah, I did a bunch of rock climbing as an undergraduate but haven’t had much opportunity to do it out here. I’ve skied my whole life. But since my son was born my free time has been severely limited.

You can be forgiven for that! But a picture was posted on one of your websites of you climbing some rocks that looked like steps.

That was Iceland.

Oh yes, you did say it was Iceland.  That was fascinating. And then you were laying in the crook of a kind of an arch and I was trying to guess what the drop off was on the side that I couldn’t see, because I don’t care for heights too much. Where was that?

That was Arches National Park out in Utah and the other side, I think, was more perilous than I probably would do today, but for some reason I like really high heights. I find it very relaxing in a terrifying way! (laughs)

Yeah, it’s terrifying, I would agree with that. So maybe we’ve sort of covered the basics, but once we talk about your work and your life, we like to ask “what do you do for fun?”  

It’s changed a lot since having kids, but in a good way. I think having a kid makes you slow down and appreciate things that you wouldn’t have recognized or paid attention to otherwise. Now I get a lot of joy out of looking at the rocks on the sidewalk and at the plants that are growing, the squirrel running down the street. Things that I would usually overlook, but to be honest, that’s a lot of my life right now. Very slow walks led by an 18 month old!

That’s a great perspective because yes, when you walk with a child, all of a sudden you realize they’ve stopped and notice what has caught their attention. it’s usually a bug, or a little rock, or something that that we totally missed. And those things can be just as fascinating as the planet Mars.

I don’t think the he enjoys it when I try to explain Mars geology to him at his age. (laughs)

But the time will come.  One of the things we ask about is what accomplishment are you the most proud of that’s not related to your NASA work?

Oh, that’s a hard one! I am proud, and this is maybe a cop out easy answer, but I’m proud of just our family and being able to prioritize or balance the work, being focused on science but also having this family that I love so much, being able to participate with them. And then I think I’ve had to be resilient a lot in my career. I’ve had ups and downs and challenges and have needed to keep focused. It’s kind of like what I said before: that just because something is hard doesn’t mean that it’s not worth your time. If you’re not immediately successful it can be really disappointing but it’s not the end of the world. You can keep pushing through and keep working and can get somewhere, if not external success, then inside. And I think that has been something I’ve really learned, particularly as somebody who was a perfectionist growing up. Learning that failures are part of life and challenges are worthwhile.

Since you play the violin are you particularly drawn to classical music, or are there other musical genres that are of equal or greater interest?

I love all of it. I’ve listened to a lot of classical. Beethoven is my favorite, even though he’s a lot of people’s favorite. I lived in Paris for six months and I would go to the Louvre statue garden and just listen to an entire Beethoven Symphony. It was just my favorite thing to do. But I also really like bluegrass music. I like folk and acoustic. My husband is really into hard rock, so I’ve been learning how to appreciate that. We have a very musical household.

You have a well-rounded family musically, that’s for sure. And how about your reading interest? What book might we find on your night stand or in your office library?

That’s a great question. I read a lot of fiction and recently I’ve been getting into the genre that people call “cozy mysteries”. I’ve been reading Maisie Dobbs, which is sort of low stakes detective mysteries, not too scary, but just enough to give you a bit of a mystery to follow through on and explore.

That’s exploration in its own way, isn’t it? Who or what has inspired you, or does inspire you, as you move through life?

I’ve been lucky that there’s a lot of people in my life who are inspirational. Just colleagues, you know, seeing the path and the career that they’ve taken and the work that they do every day and the way that they approach scientific thought, I was always very inspired by how Bob Haberle could think through problems and how he could speak to the problems that he was working through so eloquently. I’ve always been inspired by both of my parents and their approach to the world and now to their approach to parenting, as I try to learn my way through that. I’ve also been very fortunate that I found a partner who has a unique perspective on the world that’s different than mine, so I can learn from him and be inspired by how he approaches the world and its challenges. It’s not hard to find people to look to and say, “Wow, I need to learn something from them because they’re doing something right.”

You’re right and the fact is, at least the way I look at it, everybody is my superior in some way that I can learn from.

I think that’s a really great perspective to have.

I mentioned earlier that we’d like to include images in the post that we finally put together for you and those may certainly include ones related to your work. They can also include, family things, anything that you’ve talked about: your interests, maybe you playing a violin or taking a walk with your son, anything that tends to illustrate the things you’ve talked about but is there a particularly favorite image that you would want to include?  I see a couple of pictures behind you on the wall of your office.  

Yeah. So you can see off to the corner, there’s this series of like, travel posters, basically for different planets in our solar system.

Are those little children in front of a planet? Is that what I’m seeing?

Yeah, that’s HAT-P-11 b  (a Neptune like gas giant planet), so it’s a hot Neptune. If you traveled there it would be quite bright and hot. (laughs)

So the meaning of the poster is exploration?

It’s meant to be exploration. It’s meant to be, I guess sometime in our, in our maybe distant future where you might have a travel agent suggesting that you go on a voyage across the solar system and hit all the major planets. I have three in my house, I have a Mars, a solar system tour, and then one for Kepler 16. I’ve always really liked them. And then from a more or less artistic side, I guess I always really like the Mars Express images from the ESA mission because I just think they’re amazing. Every time I see them, I’m like, how are these real photos? They’re so amazing.

Well, feel free to include any of those that are meaningful to you because knowing what you’re interested in and your perspective on things helps us better understand you and that is the point. So include those as well as any others that you’d like. I always think the more pictures the better. They draw attention and  help us understanding you better.

And also if there is a favorite quote that you’d like to have included you can share it now or you could add it later when you edit the transcript.

No, I can think of two off the top and they relate to two different kinds of perspectives on life. One is kind of related to the challenges we’ve talked about and I don’t even know who said it. it’s that “There are only two possible outcomes for any endeavor: success or learning”.

Oh, I like that.

Yeah, and that was very comforting to me for a lot of my graduate work and even now.

What a great perspective, because at the very end you’re expecting the word “failure”, but you’re not getting that. You’re getting another positive, two positives. And I like that.

And the other one is from a very interesting documentary about Antarctica by Werner Herzog, He showed that at McMurdo Station there is a wooden fence, and carved into it by someone is the quote: “I Sink into Bliss”. And I don’t know, it resonated with me as a reminder to sort of be “in the moment”, recognize the joys of the present moment, and really appreciate the good things going on around you.

That’s a great thought! Mark, did you want to say something?

Yes, regarding your comment on the your toddler noticing things like bugs. Does it expand your view on sciences when your kids ask you questions about the bugs and the rocks they find?

Theo’s not quite verbal yet, but I can see that in the future. As you look at what’s going on in the world it can make you see these small details and start questioning your perspective or how you looked at it prior and you start seeing things.  Like when we were on a hike and he was digging in the sand and the top layer was wet, and the bottom layer was dry, and I started thinking about Mars regolith, and the RSL’s and how that could contribute to dust lifting. So, you know, it’s always on. I’m sure I’ll annoy my kids in the future, like “Please stop, Mom! (laughs) At least I like to think so.

Well, he is going to be as fortunate growing up with you and your husband as you have been with your parents. A child’s curiosity and imagination are delightful to behold. Is there anything that you wish we had asked that we didn’t?

No, I think you really covered the broad range of it. I guess since this is a public facing website too, I would just encourage anybody who is interested, that this is a possibility. Just because it’s not your typical career path doesn’t mean you shouldn’t go for it, if you’re interested in it.  See where it lands you and pursue it. I like to see especially kids, you know, growing up in middle school and high school and I think they don’t always recognize that this is an option. It’s something you can do in your career and so realize that there are a lot of options out there.

Thank you for taking the time to sit for this brief interview. I think it will be a great addition to our series.

OK. That’s awesome. Thank you for reaching out to me.

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(Interview conducted by Fred Van Wert and Mark Vorobets)

Credits:

https://victoriahartwick.wixsite.com/research

Michael C. Wong (photocredit)

automaticblogging.com (photocredit)

https://www.cnet.com/pictures/mars-express-10-years-of-capturing-the-red-planet-in-full-color-pict

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Ciara C. Fitzpatrick